Russia’s Putin: New dawn in bilateral ties

"Global changes are leading to changes in regional as well as bilateral relations. The bipolar world has disappeared. The situation of two adversary blocs eyeing an opportunity to attack each other has disappeared. The world has changed. We are neighbors, and at stake are our mutual benefits. We will win when we combine our efforts. We will achieve greater goals. This is our understanding, and, as far as we can see, that is Turkey’s understanding as well. Besides, according to my understanding and that of many other heads of state, in recent days Turkey has adopted a fully independent line and its prestige in the international arena has increased," Putin said.

The Russian president said there was great need for Turkey and Russia to diversify their relations. He said there were many areas of cooperation, citing cooperation in energy as "a very important one."

Here are extensive excerpts from Birand’s interview with President Putin:
BIRAND – I don’t want any secret dossier from you, but in your youth you served both the KGB (intelligence service) and the state. What did Turkey represent you at those days? Did you approach it with suspicion and concern or as a country considered to be an enemy? What was you perception of Turkey?

PUTIN – I say with all sincerity that Turkey was a NATO-member country, a country to which NATO attached great emphasis in this geography.

BIRAND – That is a kind of enemy, in practical terms.

PUTIN – Yes, an adversary.

BIRAND – We, on the other hand, grew up like this: Stalin wanted Kars and Ardahan from us, demanded this and that for the Turkish Straits. We grew up hearing such things. Are these all over? Have the Kars, Ardahan, straits issues between Turkey and Russia been resolved? Where are we heading?

PUTIN – We are heading towards cooperation and welfare. To welfare through cooperation because common efforts are required to intensively improve your economy, achieve the prosperity and welfare of your citizens. Russia and Turkey are neighboring countries. We have common interests. We have a complicated, confusing, intense and extremely interesting common history. In that history many things happened and are finished. Both wars and peace deals. But cooperation has always dominated everything. You will recall, in the ’20s and ’30s of the last century the Soviet Union extending materiall and moral support to the young Turkish Republic. In the 1960s and 1970s, with the Soviet help to the Turkish government, metallurgy, aluminum facilities and refineries were established. There are many things that unite us. I firmly believe that today and tomorrow, the more we cooperate and unite our efforts, [the more] we can achieve greater and broader goals. The latest examples, the Blue Stream project and such big successes that may have appeared impossible to realize were able to become realities through cooperation and joint efforts. If I remember correctly, while our bilateral trade volume in 1992 was only $1.3 billion, at the end of 2003 this figure had risen to $6.8 billion. That is, we have had an almost sixfold increase. In the first six months of this year, the trade volume has expanded by around 60 percent. That’s a spectacular figure. It’s a figure which demonstrates that we have excellent capabilities. I’m not even talking about the interest of Russian tourists in Turkey. If I’m not remembering it wrong, 1.2-1.3 million Russian tourists visited Turkey last year.

BIRAND – Have you ever been to Antalya?

PUTIN – I’ve been there couple of times. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

BIRAND – What kind of a place is it for you?

PUTIN – I liked Antalya a lot. After my first visit, my perception of Turkey changed altogether.

BIRAND – How?

PUTIN – For the positive, of course. Some prejudices — certain prejudices towards all NATO countries — disappeared after encountering the realities of today’s Turkey. We met with ordinary people, got acquainted. Saw their reaction towards Russians. Saw their approach towards myself.

BIRAND – It appears that Antalya has changed your approach towards Turkey.

PUTIN – Greatly. To a great extent. We got a small boat from a friend. We cruised along the coast. I can’t remember exactly, but I think the boat had a crew of two or three. It was a very old boat. But those people impressed me a lot. They weren’t politicians, businessmen or such but ordinary Turks. Such lovely, hospitable, natural people who extended great friendship to us. Getting to know such people has changed my perception of Turkey.

BIRAND – Was it 1990 or so?

PUTIN – If I recall correctly, it was 1992-1993.

BIRAND – It was the time you started climbing towards the top at the Kremlin.

PUTIN – Yes.

BIRAND – In our 500-year-old relationship, this is the first time that the person at the very top is making a visit to Turkey, and it’s you. If you were a journalist covering this visit, what headline would you would put in your newspaper?

PUTIN – Advancing together for welfare.

BIRAND – That could be too long for a headline. Could we have a headline like, "Strategic partners"?

PUTIN – The less we use cliches the better.

BIRAND – Now, could we at this point say that the past is over and that now we have new things? That the old expectations in Turkish-Russian relations, the jargon and slogans, were all dumped and now a new web of ties, more intimate, going much deeper, carrying the two countries into a multidimensional partnership is opening? Is this the framework of this visit?

Turkey’s rising prestige
PUTIN – You are right. The world has totally changed. Global changes are leading to changes in regional as well as bilateral relations. The bipolar world has disappeared. The situation of two adversary blocs eyeing an opportunity to attack each other has disappeared. The world has changed. We are neighbors and at stake are our mutual benefits. We will win when we combine our efforts. We will achieve greater goals. This is our understanding and, as far as we can see, that’s Turkey’s understanding as well. Besides, according to my understanding and that of many other heads of state, in recent days Turkey has adopted a fully independent line and its prestige in the international arena has increased.

BIRAND – I’ll use the headline, "A new start." What would you say to that?

PUTIN – Not bad at all.

BIRAND – There is a considerable deficit in trade relations. It appears we have a deficit of around $7 billion, excluding the suitcase trade and such. When you look at these figures, would you consider making investments? Do you have plans to reach to Europe via Turkey regarding energy exports? How do you see the natural gas and petroleum issues?

PUTIN – We have to diversify our relations. There are many areas for cooperation. The energy field that you have just mentioned is only one of these. A very important one. From now on we are ready to sell natural gas and perhaps oil to Turkey. The export of energy through Turkey is under consideration. The possibility of linking up to the Turkish energy grid is currently being evaluated. Some of our companies are ready to participate in investments in Turkey in the energy field.

BIRAND – Big investments are coming?

PUTIN – Yes. I know it well and believe that our companies are ready to participate in Turkey’s privatization process. They have the will. I believe they will be successful. In the aviation field, in the area of technological military cooperation, you know, in the helicopter tender, we are continuing our struggle. There are many fields in which we can exert joint efforts.

Russian veto not directed at KKTC
BIRAND – Now, you attach great importance on Turkey. A new era is opening. In the past anyone who would have uttered those words would have been imprisoned. Now we have a totally different era. But we see that when it comes to the issue of "Lift the restrictions on the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus," Russia all of a sudden announces its veto at the Security Council. Why? I think there is a contradiction.

PUTIN – We start from the point that this is a problem of the Cypriots. The two communities must be able to reach a settlement through establishing an accord between themselves. The peoples living in both the northern and southern parts of the island must be able to live in peace for many years. In order to create such an atmosphere there is merit to decreasing external pressure as much as possible. When we vetoed the report that was brought just before the referenda to be held in Cyprus, we acted under this consideration. I believe any decision should not influence the free vote of the electors. As far as I know the Cyprus problem constitutes a heavy burden on the Turkish people and economy. Turkey is for a settlement. We are as well for a settlement. Therefore, in order to achieve that settlement we will collaborate with everyone, including Turkey, to find that settlement.

BIRAND – At this moment the Turkish Cypriots are saying: "Yes, we want a settlement. We want reunion. We want to solve the problem," but the Greek Cypriots are saying "No." Then, again, the Turks are being punished. This does not fit.

PUTIN – Now you are pulling me into the domestic affairs of Cyprus. I believe I don’t have that right. Regarding our veto, even today’s government did not have a negative reaction towards our veto. It was not a veto used against northern Cyprus. It was to allow the Turkish and Greek Cypriots make their decisions devoid of external pressure.

BIRAND – Then, this means you would not use your veto if a similar thing comes on the agenda again.

PUTIN – If we have a similar situation, then we will decide according to the realities of that time, taking into consideration the interests of everyone living on Cyprus.

BIRAND – Are Turkey and Russia competitors in the Caucasus and Eurasia? Or do they plan to act together in an alliance poised to resolve problems? For example, if Turkey wants to play the role of mediator in Georgia, what would your reaction be?

PUTIN – Just think that both Russia and Turkey want normalization, the establishment of stability in this region more than anyone else. We know the problems at hand much better than anyone. We understand them well. We want the re-establishment of stability in this region more than anyone else because we are neighbors in this region. I believe if we want to settle these problems in conformity with regional interests, we must avoid competition. We have very strong ties with this region: economic, humanitarian, cultural. I believe if we want to have a settlement in line with the interests of the region, we must avoid competition, particularly competition with the involvement of countries from outside the region. That was the first. The second, regarding the Cyprus problem, our veto was not a surprise for our Turkish friends, our Turkish contacts. First of all, we negotiated this with them. Similalry, we hope to have cooperation in other regions of the world. We may achieve better results with this approach.

BIRAND – Iraq was your most important ally in the region in the past. If the Soviet Union had not dissolved, would the United States still have intervened in Iraq?

PUTIN – If the Soviet Union did not undergo that process and remained as it was, of course, such a thing would not have happened. What would have happened if within its old borders the Soviets had undergone a political change, I cannot know. But in a changed Soviet Union, the Iraq regime could not have been our ally. Things perhaps would have evolved as they are now.

BIRAND – Is the United States being dragged in Iraq into a quagmire, for example, like what happened in the past to the Soviets in Afghanistan?

PUTIN – Drawing some parallels might not be that healthy. I would prefer to make an analysis of today’s situation. You know we were against war in Iraq. We did not believe it would be of any use. I believe that what has been experienced there now proves our assessments of the time to have been correct. But whatever happened, happened. We can see that the Americans and President Bush have achieved some successes in Iraq. A transition government has been established. From now on we want to make a contribution to the normalization of the situation there. We want to contribute to the establishment of domestic stability. We hope stability can be quickly re-established. We are worried about increased violence in Iraq. We will not spare any effort. The basic sign of normalization of the situation in Iraq is the restoration of Iraq’s full sovereignty.

BIRAND – What if some developments take place in Iraq and, for example, an independent Kurdish state is established in northern Iraq? What would Russia’s position be? What would you do to prevent it? Would you send troops?

Russia is against Iraq’s disintegration
PUTIN – Sending troops is something that should be a last resort. We should avoid the evolution of a situation that would necessitate dispatching troops. Our position is clear: We are for Iraq’s territorial integrity and against its division into new states.

BIRAND – If I understood you correctly, you mean Russia is against a Kurdish state or any other development that would damage Iraq’s territorial integrity. I think your position is same as Turkey’s on this issue.

PUTIN – Yes, our positions overlap.

BIRAND – Now, lastly I want to come to the Chechnya issue. We are also very interested in this issue. I recall it well, in the past Moscow was accusing Turkey — even sometimes making public accusations — and complaining that Turkey was "acting soft" towards the Chechens or of being tolerant towards the Chechens, whereas what was going on had to be treated as terrorism. Even at times using the PKK card, Moscow was threatening Turkey. Then such things quieted down and disappeared. Mutual mechanisms were established. Are these mechanisms functioning well? Are you happy with this balance? Are you satisfied with Turkey’s current position?

PUTIN – I want to turn a little bit back to Iraq. Your question on a possible Kurdish state and what Russia’s position on that would be was not a random question. We do know and understand that Turkey has some concerns on this issue. Turkey knows far better than other countries what terrorism and separatism are. This dissolution trend had an impact within the Russian Federation as well after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. When the state became weaker, separatist moves started, not only in Chechnya but in other places as well. In Chechnya it was because of the mistakes made by the Russian Federation that we had the toughest situation. Today things are returning to normal. Presidential elections were held. But international terrorism has been trying to make the best use of this situation to serve its own purposes. Two civilian planes were crashed by terrorist gangs that had links to al-Qaeda. That as well proves my thesis to be correct. Separatists in the northern Caucasus are not acting in line with the interests of the Chechen people but for their own filthy interests. They have links with international terrorism.

Secondly, in Turkey, some nongovernmental organizations, some foundations were contacting terrorists in Chechnya. But we know well the great suffering Turkey has undergone from terrorism. Just remember the latest bombing incidents. We know well that our Turkish partners are struggling against them. Cooperation between your security forces and intelligence agencies is gradually increasing and getting better. We hope they will soon acquire a new character. This will be possible because of the atmosphere of political confidence that has been established between the leaders of our two countries.

BIRAND – Then could we say that "Turkey understands you and you are happy with the official position of Turkey" regarding Chechnya?

PUTIN – Yes. We are happy with Turkey’s official position and hope our cooperation on this issue will become better.